Here are a few pictures that highlight my corporation’s venture into Wormhole space to strike it rich.
In addition to the massive stock of Subsystem BPCs that I recently acquired on a bulk deal, I have also picked up a large amount of Tech 3 hull BPCs.
I thought that a large batch of hulls would go along nicely with the production run of the Subsystems so I bought them after running the numbers.
The bulk deal was for enough BPCs to make 443 Hulls. The average BPC price per run on the deal came out to 18.35 M. On public contract right now, a Tengu BPC is trading at about 20-25 M/run.
Construction Skill Prerequisites That I Need
I will need to train up Cruiser Construction to V and each racial Starship Engineering to V. Each one will take around ~22 days to get to V.
I currently have 6.7 M skills in Science on my industry, invention, and research alt so this will help round him out by giving him the ability to produce a large variety of Tech 2/3 ships.
I now have enough BPCs to make 119 Legion, 61 Loki, 51 Proteus, and 212 Tengu Hulls.
Production Run Considerations
Tech 3 Hulls and Subsystems can only be made in an Subsystem Assembly Array anchored at a POS.
A mobile assembly facility where advanced subsystems and hulls of strategic cruisers can be manufactured
3 manufacturing slots:
Base time multiplier: 1.0
Base material multiplier: 1.0
(Note: Tech III hulls cannot be assembled at starbase structures. The hulls and subsystems can only be assembled whilst docked in a station.)
Just the 212 Tengu Hulls will take 7 months to produce on 1 production line. I’m not sure how many Subsystem Assembly Array modules will go live for the run or how many characters will be trained up to produce yet.
Making 443 Hulls will produce a profit of 12.9 B minus the investment for the BPCs at 8.1 B. The profit estimation is around 4.7 B.
Note that the previous profit number does not account for the cost of running POS.
is what I’d like to refer to myself to as, but with my current self-esteem issues the closest I can get is “Lucky Idiot” in that most of my incredibly stupid ideas work out in an awesome way. I think this is the result of my analytical mind complimented with Attention Deficit Disorder, so I think of crazy ideas, then make them plausable, then convey them in a humorous enough way that everyone is attracted enough to actually think about it and maybe do it, see my afterburner/orca and ECM hulk ideas.
Alright, the ECM hulk didn’t work out very well, but my idea to fit low-friction nozzles to help us run away faster instead of cargo optimizers was a great idea and now everyone in our WH has them >.>
My point is, most of these ideas are gems while a goodly percent turn out to be ridiculous. With that in mind, here is my latest silly idea:
Because all the gankers in hulkageddon need minerals to buy ships to kill us, let’s hold off on selling minerals for a week or two. This may actually help megacyte’s current price.
No, that isn’t actually my idea nor the idea I had in mind. THAT idea is, *drumroll*, Static WH mining.
People will say that WH space is completely random and silly, and use the analogy that K-space is an empty glass and WH space is a pile of BBs you just poured into the glass. And you enjoy shaking the glass every 24 hours and listening to the people living in the BBs curse.
Anyway, that’s not necessarily true. WH space is really like a three dimensional series of orbiting spheres interlocking, rotating at different speeds, which, if someone ever actually mapped that thing, would look insanely beautiful and would probably help a lot of WH miners and such.
Oh look, there goes my brain, feeling euphoric at the possibility of learning how to program something like that.
Anyway, what that analogy was talking about is that some/all WHs have static links, I.E. whenever you scan, you are guaranteed to find a WH leading to that type of exit. If the WH leading to that type closes through whatever means, a new link will be established to another WH of that type.
Another bit you need to understand is site despawning. Once you completely shoot/mine/explore the crap out of any specific site, it vanishes next downtime. As you do whatever to more and more sites in one specific WH, the sites spawn slower and slower until you’re stuck sitting there watching Stargate SG-1 reruns until a new grav spawns in a week or so.
Anyway, here’s my idea: Since we’re currently in a C5 with a static C6, why not mine the gravs in the static? That way, we’ll never run outta sites and have nigh infinite ore available. Here’s how I think this will play out:
We find a C6.
We move an orca and a few BSs into the WH, the Orca sets up a PoS with some guns while the BSs open a grav site.
The BS pilots go back to the pos in the C5 and get hulks(or Covetors) and mine in the C6, while the orca pickups and drops the ore in the small pos corp hangar, and once the op is done, the miners use T1 industrials to haul the ore out through the WH to preserve the integrity.
The orca has scan ships and/or a probe launcher fitted in case of the second worst case scenario or less:
Worst case scenario: we lose 6 Covetors and a fully insured Orca. Losses: not very much.
Second worst case scenario: we lose the mining ships and the orca gets locked down in the small pos, attackers wait it out and close the link to the C6 from the C5.
Counter: the orca warps to a safespot and cloaks/and or logoffskis. Logon/decloak later and scan an exit.
Note that this has to be done AS the hulks are being destroyed >.>
Stupid idea? Really stupid idea? Stopped reading halfway through because of the stupidity? Genius idea? Already thinking of ways to counter it? Tell me!
P.S. Orca with a scan ship fitted to it… hehe… that gave me an image of an Orca with a buzzard welded to the side…
Edit: corp mate gave me the idea of using a BC for boosting in hostile WHs, eliminating the need for a PoS and reducing losses, if an itty V, myrm and 6 covetors are use for mining, to…lessie…
6 covetors: 10 mil to fully insure
1 myrmadon: 30 mil.
1 rigged itty V: 30 mil
so 120 mil if we get completely screwed, compared to
6 hulks: 1.2 bil
rigged orca: 400 mil
so 120 mil minimum risk for obscene profits.
Don’t propel footwear at me, but I’m gonna reference another MMO. Most if not all of you were young at some point.
For those of you who have suddenly been transported to the hippie era, catch up to me when you can.
When I was in middle school, a friend told me about a new, free, exciting online game called Runescape. By Eve standards, a terrifyingly simple game where in your dps was determined by your strength and attack stats, your tank was your defense stat and whatever armor you happened to be wearing at the time, and that was it. The market would sell items and buy items from players at a price set by GMs, it was infested by L33tspeakers, ect, ect.
The reason I cornered you and started rambling about how online games stunted my childhood is because of one specific item in Runescape, called the Party hat. Way back in 2000 or some year before I started playing, Jagex (the makers of Runescape) released party crackers on new years eve. These things, when pulled, would make a small sparkle animation give one of the pullers a party hat, an equippable, tradable item that had no effect on anything at all, except to make the players around you think “Hey, that guy knows how to pull a party cracker”.
At time of last checking (six months ago), party hats are worth 30 million gold pieces. In Eve terms, that’s about two to three bil, and in comparison, the last thing I did before quitting Runescape was utilize the game’s only passive income mechanic and, after four or five months, buy a set of the best, coolest-looking armor there was, with a matching scimitar, battleaxe, longsword, 2-hander, and boots for 10 mil.
Anyway, the point I was trying to make somewhere was that, even in a carefully-controlled market, people want what can no longer be found. The Zephyr is an example of this, since the moment people got their hands on them for the first time, they were going for 50 mil in dodixie. The big difference from Runescape, tho, is that resentful people who want the Zephyr and don’t want to pay for it are going to blow you out of the sky faster than you can say “Hai guyz lookit mai cul ship”.
Functionality wise, it’s a scan ship without bonuses, slower than a shuttle. It’s only saving feature, that Sleepers won’t try to kill it, will lead to some nice screenshots but that’s about it. The lack of defensive, offensive, or cloaking capabilities means that you had best know how to avoid combat probes should someone else be in the WH with you, with an actual scan ship which, from past experience, has enough offensive capabilities to kill a frigate sized ship. Since the average new eve online player as of a few months ago doesn’t know what combat probes are, I’d say that as soon as killmails start accepting the new ship data, we’re gonna see lots of wrecks in wormholes.
Actually, it’s other saving feature, the fact that you can fly around pretending to be Count Dooku for a few brief, wonderful moments until the aforementioned blowing out of the sky shenanigans, makes it a nice ship IMO. The unique model and jerks(read again: players) destroying everyone else’s Zephyr will ensure that four to five years from now; you’ll probably be able to trade one for a Mothership. Sorry, super-carrier.
It seems to me that Eve Online has two real means of profit: safe or exciting, with middle grounds to cater to anyone’s preference in terms of safety or shooty fun. On the extremely safe end,you have manufacturing. Obtain some BPs, get some mats, haul them to a POS anchored in .7, wait a week, haul it to Jita, sell, buy more mats, repeat. On the extreme shooty fun end, you have combat, specifically piracy. Not being a pirate myself but having heard several of them quote ransom figures and loot sales, I’d reason that profit is to be had, just sporadically at best. Fun as some people say watching their wallets fatten by selling blocks of ice is, I’d wager that piracy is much, much more fun to most of the player base.
Less safe than manufacturing, you have mining, ice mining in particular. Assuming no-one hulkageddons you, you can comfortably sit and watch a movie or something while you garner a steady income, boring though it is, ice is the most consistent income there is, with manufacturing based on whether or not someone needs the item you wish to sell. Everyone in a medium to large corp need POS fuel, although Dominion may lower prices.
Farther down the spectrum for safe, you have high sec mining, fairly safe but slight risk of flippers and other annoyances, still lucrative, but not as simple as ice by an albeit small margin. Low sec mining is much riskier, by that becoming less safe, but here is where your profits have a noticeable increase over high sec or ice mining. Arguable safer than low sec mining is null sec mining in space which you, your corp, or your alliance has laid a claim to. In here, assuming you can tank/obliterate the rats, there is the best ore you can find and by watching local, you are almost certain to have advanced warning enough to run yourself back to the POS. The riskiest form of mining, and in my opinion the stupidest/silliest, is mining in null sec you have no claim to. If anyone that does have a claim to that space sees you, they will make it a point to crush you and get you out of their space, less they appear weak to the surrounding null sec owners and partially because it’s their space they fought tooth n nail for, what the hell are you doing in it?
Hopping to the other end of the spectrum, in combat. Piracy is one of the most staggered paying professions you can pursue, but running missions gives you a much more stable income but is more dull, but not dull enough for you to watch a movie. Correct me if I’m wrong, but warping the tank in, waiting for aggro, then warping the Oneiros or whatever in for repping, dps dps dps, looting/salvaging, next room, repeat. Unless you get attacked by gankers or an unexpected wave of pirates that target the logistics, you should be fine. It’s still much more profitable than piracy tho. Ratting and complexing fall here as well, but having never run a plex before I’m forced to assume that its basically the same concept but with bigger numbers, damage, reps, and lewtz.
Somewhere between shooty fun and mining is blockade running, or taking courier contracts. To me, this seems riskier than most paths but has the potential to be boring, comparing running through ten hostile nullsecs with 100m3 of exotic dancers to hauling 80k m3 worth of minerals to one highsec station. It’s as risky or as safe as you want it, but doesn’t seem to have much profit in it, especially since the more profitable a courier is, the more likley the destination is on the other side of goon space or something.
From normal space ratting to sleeper ratting. Sleepers possessing a much better AI are indeed challenging, forcing you at higher levels to make sure that every ship has a high tank less you be obliterated. Much more time consuming and riskier than mission running, but salvage sells well and it’s more exciting, even if it takes 15 minutes to scan out the next spawn, less if you chain spawn. This is the second most risky niche in my opinion, because there is no local chat. To the slim number who have never been in W-space or don’t know the implications of lacking a local chat, it basically means that there could be a ship cloaked 2001 meters away from you and you will never, ever know. Even if you do get jumped by 6 battleships that you swear weren’t there a second ago, you still have a chance at fighting back tho.
The niche in eve that has the best profit for the riskiest situation, in my opinion, is wormhole space mining. It’s all the fear and eyes in the dark mentality of sleeper killing, but you have no offensive capabilities and anyone with a tech 1 auto cannon and a warp scrambler can kill you with a cough. And the best part is, people actively seek you out with intent to surprise you, because if you manage to see them before they scram you, you survive to mine another day and they don’t get a kill notification. For those of you who haven’t been in WH space, the only way to find out if someone is in the system with you is if the ship you’re looking for is uncloaked, within 2 million kilometers of you, and you happen to press the scan button on your directional at the right time. Keep in mind that most c5s, the places with the best ore to be had, are larger than 2 million kilometers, so there could be a fleet just outside looking for you. Needless to say, it’s moderately scary. But the problem is, you don’t get ganked very often. Sure, when a wolf kills you and manages to pod you back to empire, once you get some ore sold and manage to get a new hulk back in the WH and start mining again, you’ll be clicking that scan button like a woodpecker. But after a few hours, you’ll slow down. And after a few more hours, you’ll slow down to scanning maybe every cycle, because you’ll just be sitting there, with nothing happening. And a few hours after that is when, according to Murphy’s law, a fleet of titans will somehow appear and roflpwn you before you can say “WH size restrictions”. Each unique play style seems balanced with risk vs profit, and each one has its own degree of interaction and fun you can derive.
(keep in mine that since megacyte had tanked to 3 thousand, WH mining isn’t as profitable as it used to be and that honor may be deserving of epic mission arcs or something)
If you want to make money without fun, you make a thousand tractor beams and sell them in Jita. If you want to beat some poor soul within an inch of his life and demand his lunch money or his life, you can do that too. If you want to subject yourself to hours of sitting at your computer, clicking the scan button in fear, you can do that too. It’s all a beautifully balanced game that somehow is appealing to anyone and everyone who can see the fun in living in a world where someone could kill you at any second almost anywhere you care to name.
Of course, in theory you could start the game, move to jita moon 4, and use courier contracts and buy orders to work the market, with little to no risk, but i think 90% of eve’s playerbase would get more joy from making an excel spreadsheet. To the 10% of people who know how to work the market perfectly and have made many, many spreadsheets, please don’t pull your metaphorical strings and bankrupt me with your ungodly amount of cash you spent the last few months making.
edit: oh jeez, forgot moon goo. grab a few hundred friends, muscle your way onto the 0.0 grid, do whatever it is the new soverenty rules require, drop a pos, set up moon array. wait a few weeks refining/stockpiling, throw the resusts into a jump freighter or something, haul to jita, repeat. takes very little effort, sorta risky (see: 100 friends), with nice returns. Course, there is the overhanging risk that someone ELSE with 200 other friends will kill you faster than you can say “where’d our cyno jam go?”.
second edit: made a confusing graph
Vital Core sites are some of the harder Ladar sites in WH space. Each one can spawn up to 2x Advanced Sleeper BS’s which will web and scram. If you have not read Islands among the Stars: A Guide to Everything Wormhole, please do so. It has invaluable information on WH tactics and types of WH sites.
My WH partners and I gathered our PvE ships and decided to take on the harder Ladar sites in order to get at the higher end gas. Our fleet consisted of BS’s with a logistical Dominix fitted with Large Remote Armor Repair System I‘s and Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot I‘s.
Sleeper Damage on my Dominix with 78/71/70/58 resists.
[ 2009.10.25 19:14:07 ] Sleepless Sentinel places an excellent hit on you, inflicting 1349.9 damage.
[ 2009.10.25 19:33:11 ] Sleepless Sentinel places an excellent hit on you, inflicting 222.7 damage.
[ 2009.10.25 19:33:31 ] Phantasmata Missile belonging to Sleepless Sentinel hits you, doing 1367.5 damage.
[ 2009.10.25 19:27:59 ] Your group of 350mm Railgun I is well aimed at Sleepless Sentinel, inflicting 107.2 damage.
Large Railguns on the Sleeper BS hull:
[ 2009.10.25 19:37:09 ] Your group of 350mm Railgun I is well aimed at Sleepless Sentinel, inflicting 542.8 damage.
[ 2009.10.25 19:37:14 ] Your group of 350mm Railgun I is well aimed at Sleepless Sentinel, inflicting 503.8 damage.
Our fleet performed rather well. As the Sleeper BS’s switched primary targets, we switched our reps. No ship got deep into armor and we successfully unlocked the 2x Ladar sites.
A few of my WH mates spent the ISK and got the Gas Cloud Harvesting skill book for around 21 M each. The skill is a 1x skill so getting it up to IV only took us around 36 hours. For each level, you can use 1 Gas Cloud Harvester I (10 m3 / cycle) and at V, you can use the Tech 2 version, which has double the mining amount (20 m3 / cycle).
The 2x Vital Core Reservoir sites each have 500 C540 and 6,000 C320 sized clouds. Using Jita averages, one C540 cloud would net around 30.75 M and the C320 around 473.3 M. In total, the two Ladar sites came out to around 1.008 B worth of gas.
With our Orca boost, our cycle times went down to 23.6 seconds from 30 seconds. Overall it took 12x Gas Cloud Harvester I‘s around 5-6 hours to clear both sites. I’ve got my alt set on getting the skill up to V so he can use Tech2 harvesters which should drastically cut the time down as the yield per cycle will be doubled.
Some harvesting tips:
- Gas Cloud Harvester modules take up a turret high slot.
- I have found that a Cruiser or higher hull will have enough power to use 4x Tech1 units.
- Gas takes up space. Our two Ladar sites totaled to 70,000 m3.
- Check the price of the gas cloud in the Ladar site before you start to harvest. It seems that only C320 and C540 are worth your time.