Crazy Genius!Posted: 2010-01-11 Filed under: eveonline | Tags: c5, c6, covetor, eve online, hulk, mining, orca, ore, profit, scanning, ship, ships, sleeper, WH, wormhole 15 Comments
is what I’d like to refer to myself to as, but with my current self-esteem issues the closest I can get is “Lucky Idiot” in that most of my incredibly stupid ideas work out in an awesome way. I think this is the result of my analytical mind complimented with Attention Deficit Disorder, so I think of crazy ideas, then make them plausable, then convey them in a humorous enough way that everyone is attracted enough to actually think about it and maybe do it, see my afterburner/orca and ECM hulk ideas.
Alright, the ECM hulk didn’t work out very well, but my idea to fit low-friction nozzles to help us run away faster instead of cargo optimizers was a great idea and now everyone in our WH has them >.>
My point is, most of these ideas are gems while a goodly percent turn out to be ridiculous. With that in mind, here is my latest silly idea:
Because all the gankers in hulkageddon need minerals to buy ships to kill us, let’s hold off on selling minerals for a week or two. This may actually help megacyte’s current price.
No, that isn’t actually my idea nor the idea I had in mind. THAT idea is, *drumroll*, Static WH mining.
People will say that WH space is completely random and silly, and use the analogy that K-space is an empty glass and WH space is a pile of BBs you just poured into the glass. And you enjoy shaking the glass every 24 hours and listening to the people living in the BBs curse.
Anyway, that’s not necessarily true. WH space is really like a three dimensional series of orbiting spheres interlocking, rotating at different speeds, which, if someone ever actually mapped that thing, would look insanely beautiful and would probably help a lot of WH miners and such.
Oh look, there goes my brain, feeling euphoric at the possibility of learning how to program something like that.
Anyway, what that analogy was talking about is that some/all WHs have static links, I.E. whenever you scan, you are guaranteed to find a WH leading to that type of exit. If the WH leading to that type closes through whatever means, a new link will be established to another WH of that type.
Another bit you need to understand is site despawning. Once you completely shoot/mine/explore the crap out of any specific site, it vanishes next downtime. As you do whatever to more and more sites in one specific WH, the sites spawn slower and slower until you’re stuck sitting there watching Stargate SG-1 reruns until a new grav spawns in a week or so.
Anyway, here’s my idea: Since we’re currently in a C5 with a static C6, why not mine the gravs in the static? That way, we’ll never run outta sites and have nigh infinite ore available. Here’s how I think this will play out:
We find a C6.
We move an orca and a few BSs into the WH, the Orca sets up a PoS with some guns while the BSs open a grav site.
The BS pilots go back to the pos in the C5 and get hulks(or Covetors) and mine in the C6, while the orca pickups and drops the ore in the small pos corp hangar, and once the op is done, the miners use T1 industrials to haul the ore out through the WH to preserve the integrity.
The orca has scan ships and/or a probe launcher fitted in case of the second worst case scenario or less:
Worst case scenario: we lose 6 Covetors and a fully insured Orca. Losses: not very much.
Second worst case scenario: we lose the mining ships and the orca gets locked down in the small pos, attackers wait it out and close the link to the C6 from the C5.
Counter: the orca warps to a safespot and cloaks/and or logoffskis. Logon/decloak later and scan an exit.
Note that this has to be done AS the hulks are being destroyed >.>
Stupid idea? Really stupid idea? Stopped reading halfway through because of the stupidity? Genius idea? Already thinking of ways to counter it? Tell me!
P.S. Orca with a scan ship fitted to it… hehe… that gave me an image of an Orca with a buzzard welded to the side…
Edit: corp mate gave me the idea of using a BC for boosting in hostile WHs, eliminating the need for a PoS and reducing losses, if an itty V, myrm and 6 covetors are use for mining, to…lessie…
6 covetors: 10 mil to fully insure
1 myrmadon: 30 mil.
1 rigged itty V: 30 mil
so 120 mil if we get completely screwed, compared to
6 hulks: 1.2 bil
rigged orca: 400 mil
so 120 mil minimum risk for obscene profits.
dont u wish their was a deployable cloak field, they u wudnt need a pos, just an orca sitting inside a cloak field surrounded by ore-cans rotating them while the mining op is ongoing, and onc eits done, everyone emptys the ore cans, undeploy’s the cloak bubble, and back to the home system….
that cloak bubble thing is something been hoping for for so long, basically take the warpbubbles and make a cloak version, why cnat my wish come true
What happens after the static hole closes? Why bother even setting up a small pos? Seems like an idea that needs refining but could work…
if it closes, then another one opens in the first system. If it closes while you’re still inside it, you’re screwed, unless you have scan ships and a pos to hide in while you scan. The small pos is to have somewhere to run to and hold the ore in case of attackers, and to have somewhere to keep the scan ships and BSs n such to ensure that if the WH, which at the C5-C6 level can hold quite alot of mass, close for some reason, then you have somewhere to cower while you find a highsec. From a static C6. Which…might take a while.
Others have thought about that before: A few weeks ago we encountered two Russian POS in two connected WH’s, both from the same corp. One was the big main POS in their WH, the other one was a small tower with just an additional hangar, 4 mining ships, two haulers, and three POS guns.
The additional advantage of the tower is that it is a perfect safe spot for the barges/haulers. So each time we tried to catch the barges, they warped away, warned by their scouts at both WH’s. After some time they decided to grab there stuff and move back because of our presence. We were able to grab there unanchoring tower, but lost a transport ship to their bombers, worth a little less than the price of the tower.
So if you have the manpower, then farming neighbouring WH’s with tower support is definitely a good idea. And for the worst case of a collapsed WH you could bring a scanner to find a highsec exit.
The “static raider” methods works very well for BC site clearences of C1-3s, send in the Drakes! Then have a salvager/probe/cloak/analyse/hacking boat for site clearence and emergencies.
The mining method depends entirely on the static wh and the people in your crew. In the early days, I found my crews were scared to leave the mother wh, with retrievers and haulers moving between the wh spaces. With the smaller static wh connections, this leads to mass depletion quite quickly, as you need a fair margin. Plus it’s likely that the hauler is the only one with a probe launcher…….
I prefer the orca base idea with the orca located off the warp in point of the site, by 50km or so, with a cloak, probe and a tractor. It only decloaks every 20 mins to collect the cans and one hulk pilot swaps into a heron when the Orca travels back to the mother wh or to kspace (depending on location). The small POS is fine for new guys but to me its just more fuels, more mass and less time earning isk.
An even more paranoid method is to have the Orca cloaked 50km off a safe spot, the miners filling their holds at the grav site and dumping to jetcans 0m from the safe point. Those jet cans will not be scanned down, the ships will be moving all the time, and you have your safe spot between the grav site and the wh escape, so you’re always aligned to home.
Very little chance of losing the Orca, plus the Orca pilot can keep on top of Dscan for people probing down the mother wh, and use combat probes from his own expanded launcher.If a couple of guys want to get into their HACs that are stored in the Orca for Pew-pew then the hulks are safe (2xHulks and 1 x Orca = a fair bit of isk!)
On a quick note, I hate the Iteron IV. The Badger 2 exceeds it in almost every way but for wh ops the absolute minimum for a hauler is 2 high slots for a probe launcher and a cloak (even the basic cloaks). You never know when your wh is going to die due to enemy action and then you’re on your own.
OOps – forgot to mention – “Great Blog, keep it up”.
“WH space is really like a three dimensional series of orbiting spheres interlocking, rotating at different speeds…”
Do you have a reference for this?
I have been involved in a mapping project and am always looking for data and insights.
No, it’s the way that my mind always envisions it, sorry to not be any help. i’ll look into WH mapping tho, do a few experiments.
Actually, there is a map of WH space, although it won’t help you much.
Download and run that little gem and switch it over from regular space to unknow space. There are some very intresting things you notice about the location of different class space.
We actually tried this very tactic with hulks and a rorqual, setting up a small pos. If you’re smart about the mass it’s fairly easy to do and can be profitable, but we ended up giving up. Why? You say? Because our static links started to not have grav sites in them (among other reasons)
I say if your serious about mining 0.0 is the place to go. The industry upgrade sites are just as good as WH space, and respawn every single day. Oh, and logistics are a million times easier.
I hear what you say about 0.0 but I’ve been in W-space since apoc came out and now k-space freaks me out. It’s the local. There’s acutally a lot of security in not having the local channel. Ok you don’t know who’s in with you, but then again neither do they.
It sharpens your reflexes and keeps you aware. Spamming the directional keeps you alive n the buzz you get when you’re the first to spot combat probes n the race against time to get aligned n warp to safety you just don’t get in 0.0.
Logistics are also part of the challenge and charm to me. Yeah you may be 3 weeks without a hisec exit, but then again, you learn to plan, to be prepared. And of course, if you don’t like your neighbours, just close the connecting hole. problem solved XD
In a lot of ways, WH mining can be a hell of a lot safer than hisec. Especially right now
I agree a lot with JitaJungle, that the challenge is not political but against the environment itself! 0.0 politics can be fickle, unreliable and damn unfriendly too. Our 200 member allaince got stiffed majorly in the first effort to move into a blue neighbourhood, and got nothing for our losses.
In WH, you can get ganked or rarely your POS gets spanked but you don’t have to deal with 60 man blobs coming in to kill your kit.
The great challenges are the preparation, the exploration and the thrill of running through unknown parts of the universe with hundreds of millions in your hold, to get bac in before the wh chain dies.. .. with the isotopes.
Those damn isotopes.
We lost two weeks of robotics last week during a system move, and had to find an exit in 24 hours to get more of em. Still haven’t found the buggers.
if your looking for mining, wormholes get minerals as a bonus, their primary purpouse should always be for sleeper loot for t3, and mining in downtime of no other sites.